[obol] Corvallis dove question

[Wayne Hoffman]

I have extensive experience with Eurasian Collared-Doves from my years in 
Florida, and considerable, although less-extensive experience with "Ringed 
Turtle-Doves", both in the St Petersburg population, free-flying escapes 
elsewhere, and captive birds.

The three photos posted do not display the under-tail features at all well, 
and based only on those, I would say, indeterminate.

HOWEVER:    The two forms differ in a number of more subtle features of size 
and proportions.  Eurasian Collared-Doves are larger, and tend to look more 
rotund.  When in the cmpany of Mourning Doves (usual in Florida) 
Collared-Doves are distinctly larger and heavier-bodied.  "Ringed" are 
similar to or SLIGHTLY smaller than Mourning Doves, and have less of the 
heavy-bodied shape.  These photos lack size comparisons, but the shape looks 
good for Eurasian Collared.

In addition, the plumage of this bird appears spot-on correct for Eurasian 
Collared-Dove.  As you have pointed out, those other domesticated things are 
highly variable, but I have never identified one with the same shades of 
head and back color as this bird.  My experience is that "Ringed" tend to be 
paler, particularly on the head and back, and when they are darker, they run 
to tan or brown washes rather than this gray.

Thus, to me this bird looks distinctly more like Eurasian Collared-Dive than 
like any of the "Ringed Turtle-Doves" that I have seen.

I hope this helps.

One caviat:  Our Mourning Doves here possibly are larger than the ones in 
Florida?

Wayne Hoffman


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joel Geier" <jgeier at attglobal.net>
To: "Oregon Birders OnLine" <obol at lists.oregonstate.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:05 PM
Subject: [obol] Corvallis dove question


> Hello folks,
>
> Back in late May, photos of a "collared" dove in Corvallis were posted on 
> the following URL:
>
> http://www.bitphotography.com/proofs/dove
>
> There was one comment on OBOL by a person who simply said "Yes, Eurasian 
> Collared Dove" without discussion, citing personal familiarity with them 
> from Florida.
>
> Looking at these photos now, I wonder what are the conclusive marks to 
> rule out Ringed Turtle-Dove?
>
> The bird does appear to have darker primaries than typical for Ringed 
> Turtle-Dove, though not darker than African Collared-Dove which is the 
> ancestral form of the domesticated Ringed Turtle-Dove. We have had one 
> such instance in the general area in the past (a bird in Independence that 
> Jo Yeager and I spent a good 1+ hour looking at at close range with primo 
> views of the undertail, and which definitely had white undertail coverts 
> though it had darker primaries than typical Ringed Turtle-Dove, similar to 
> this bird).
>
> In view 1 the undertail coverts of the bird are not visible. In views 2 & 
> 3 (IMG_0991.htm and IMG_0995.htm) they are shaded but -- even though 
> shaded appear to be more whitish than the back, which I thought was a mark 
> for African Collared-/Ringed Turtle-Dove.
>
> Views 2 & 3 do appear to show dark outer webs at the base of the tail, 
> though neither view shows the underside of the webs.
>
> So my question is, are these photos really diagnostic or should we leave 
> this bird as "Collared-Dove sp."?
>
> One Collared-Dove sp. was also seen in Corvallis in early May by an 
> experienced birder who thought the undertail coverts were white rather 
> than gray. There are some photos of that bird but apparently not 
> diagnostic (expressed opinion of those who looked at them, I have not seen 
> them).
>
> For those who have had experience mulling this over, what does it take to 
> establish a first record of Eurasian Collared-Dove in an area? Granted it 
> looks like sooner or later we are bound to be overrun with them, but what 
> does it take for us to say for sure, "They're here!"
>
> Or is it possible that when we get overrun, it might be a mish-mash of 
> Eurasian Collared-Doves, feral Turtle-Doves which have started to manifest 
> ancestral traits, and possibly hybrids of the two?
>
> In other words, what's a poor local field-notes compiler to do?
>
> Thanks & good birding,
> Joel
>
> --
> Joel Geier
> jgeier at attglobal.net
>
>
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